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Joint Ventures Don't Work For Me - Story2522

Forum Owner Belew private msg quote post Address this user
It's really hard for me to depend on others ... for the simple reason that others have far too often let me down.

In fact, it escapes me now to find a time when because someone else did something for me, my life improved in some significant way.

On the other hand, when someone let me down after making an agreement, a promise, let's see ... I can go back to just yesterday to find 3 such incidents.

I'll keep this somewhat generic in the hopes that the arrangements might be redeemed. However, I will not hold my breath.

#1 In June, lets do an event. Shucks, lets do a series of them.

Got it. I started in January to prepare for these events. Lots of time, energy and action ... yup. I was ready and I tapped other people to make preparations. I grew my reach to over 800 people locally and helped my would-be partner grow their reach to over 1500 locals.

Yesterday, this person bailed on me. For a very, ahem, legitimate reason. "Fell in love." Really?

#2 Meanwhile ... another event a bit farther off ... looking real promising. Dates and venue set. I hired some people to do some research to help me prepare. Time, energy and action ... yup.

"I got a new job." Not looking again for the home team = me.

#3 - "Email me your proposal." Peck, peck, peck. Think, think, think, plan, plan, plan, send, send, send, silence, silence, silence ... "Hello!? Is anybody there?"

It's a tough position to be in when you have to depend on others for your next steps. At least that has been mainly my experience.

Are these arrangements dead? Perhaps not. But I am not holding my breath.

What's been your experience?
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Member Charlene private msg quote post Address this user
I have had similar experiences. The most recent being an event that was to be held this weekend in another city. The presenting experts were responsible for selling a specific number of spaces. The reason they were presenting experts is that they had the customer base, networks, and reach that I do not. I made the decision to cancel the event and evaluate.

After evaluating efforts to this point I made the decision to reschedule the event on a few conditions: that each presenting expert pays a small fee to participate that could be recouped with the selling of a number of seats; that each presenter agrees to market the event according to the plan I laid out; that each presenter agree to meet with me virtually on a schedule I handed them. 3 of 4 presenters are on board. The event has been rescheduled. There is an agreement that no presenter will receive a refund if the event is canceled, and that the event will be canceled if milestones aren't reached.

That's the most recent issue I've had.

I've had success with collaboration, and all have been with fellow business owners (meaning they were vested in the outcome, just as much as I was).

There have been a few times over the years when a collaboration just didn't work, and I (or the other) caught it before anyone lost too much time or money.

So, for me, it's important to have regular communication so that each person is held accountable for their part of the effort and so that issues can be raised and settled quickly.

Bummer that you're having these issues - I'd love to have a conversation about collaborating on something with you.
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Forum Owner Belew private msg quote post Address this user
@Charlene

Collaboration. .. that's the word that escaped me when I wrote this up.

Sure. Let's talk. Plz reach out via IM.
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Teacher Rev private msg quote post Address this user
I approached a person that was active in many of the places I was. He seemed to have something to share. I liked his comments and his approach.

I ran a concept by him. He said, "Yeah, count me in!" and we talked about details. I paid for a domain. I paid for hosting. I created a website. He changed his mind and wanted a different domain. I paid for the new one.

I created content. Added to the site. He was supposed to write blog posts. I paid for commercial content for the site. I set up affiliate programs. He was to get 50% of revenues. He still hadn't written blog one. I added over 100 posts.

After pushing and pulling he wrote one blog. Never another. After 12 months I apologized to members and shut the site down. If I'd wanted to run it myself I wouldn't have offered half the revenue to someone else.

It happens to all of us -- at least all of us who bring others into the fold. Others sometimes can't see what you see. Others aren't committed to the program like you are. And if the program is your idea, your concept, your work, you have to drive it, track it, build it. No one else will.

When you find the right person/people treat them right, stay in contact, explain what you need/want, and listen.
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Student TParker private msg quote post Address this user
I tend to try to stick to things that I can either manage myself or can be repurposed if the other person bails. I have been writing a series about building deeper connections with your network members (quality over quantity). One would think that having a stronger relationship would help insulate you against being disappointed. However, I am too far gone as a cynic, so I still keep my ears open for the sound of the dropping shoe.
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Forum Owner Belew private msg quote post Address this user
@TParker

True story - when I was in Japan I found that the more mastery I had over the language the fewer the friends I had.

You'd think it'd be the other way around. Not so.

As long as I was in the position where the average Japanese thought they had something they could do for me OR that I didn't know them too well, my circle of 'friends' grew.

When I started getting really good at Japanese, my circle decreased but I made closer friends.
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Teacher Rev private msg quote post Address this user
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belew
my circle decreased but I made closer friends.


Engagement vs big numbers.

Engagement wins every time.
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Teacher SusanDay private msg quote post Address this user
A friend of mine always says you get what you think you are going to get...

In other words, we can actually influence how others treat us subconsciously and in very subtle ways. I suppose that's why confident people do really well.

They expect others to perform for them. They expect things to go their way, and they expect that things will turn out well.

Is it faith? Resilience? Or trust in the universe?
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Member ConsciousPrfection private msg quote post Address this user
@SusanDay You hit the nail right on the head. Expectation is pretty much everything.

My personal method is you test the waters early. There are two things I use to determine if I work with someone else: A) I drive really hard up front and see how they respond. B) I have 3 to 5 long conversations with them and use them to gauge how interested they are in having a true bi-directional dialog OR being heard. I wasn't always this way - I just got sick of carrying other people.

So, I have to say that in the last 10 or so year I have honestly not had these issues. I in fact have the 180 to this problem. You see; I've never gone back on my word and I always follow through. My conscience would not allow otherwise. (Bill, I get the feeling that you are similar) Actually, funny part of it is: If I do drop the ball I feel so bad that I over correct. (which the pain of such reminds me not to do that again. LOL.)

Now, that said: I have requests to work together coming at me constantly (not really the best thing for me as I'm a bit ADD when it comes to ideas) so this creates a great deal of stress for me because many of them are so darn interesting I labor over saying no - but I know that I must. Usually, the earlier tests makes it easier for me to make my decision. (I actually learned the tests from an investor friend of mine - as he was pointing out a not so healthy relationship I was currently in.)

Interestingly enough, this topic Bill comes at a very timely point because this happened to me today and I'm still struggling with my answer.

Now, all that said; it is always a pleasure to work with someone of the same work/personal ethic. Great things normally happen.

@Belew Bill: don't forget to give me ample notice if you want that ride from the airport. Currently I have one wedding on my agenda for June 25th (no, not mine).
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Member tienny private msg quote post Address this user
@SusanDay Maybe trust and resilience. Expectations must be from the right people. Or else many disappointments.

@belew Does collaboration involves money?
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Member morrnel private msg quote post Address this user
Col. Sherman T. Potter: [Frank wants to auction off the camp's garbage to locals] Burns, some men are born to greatness... others have garbage thrust upon them. You've got it.
Maj. Frank Burns: I won't let you down, sir.
Col. Sherman T. Potter: There's no way you can.
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Member morrnel private msg quote post Address this user
A really good study would be to compare successful and unsuccessful teams and what makes the difference. I'm certain someone has already done it.

I was part of a startup several years ago that was a horrible failure. The failure, I think had to do with how poorly the team worked as a team.

When the failures occurred, was it all about miscommunication?
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Student TParker private msg quote post Address this user
I should add, it has been a year since any shoes have fallen. My last two bad experiences made me more cautious, but more observant too. I now don't overlook early warning signs.

If I don't have a good feel for the person's character, I move more slowly with regard to commitments. In hindsight, I think there are often signs that someone is more talk than action, but they are just so good at the talk that we ignore those signs.
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Member tienny private msg quote post Address this user
@TParker How do you realise that some people are good at talk than doing? I've encountered someone who is a good talker and know how to manage others.
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Student TParker private msg quote post Address this user
How to recognize the talk-only? It takes a little time. If you watch long enough, the talk-only person never actually gets anything done. If they can't talk someone else into doing it for them, they come up with an excuse as to why it couldn't happen. It is always someone else's fault. Good managers don't blame others, they inspire others.
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Member ConsciousPrfection private msg quote post Address this user
@TParker Perfectly stated.
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Member KathrynLang private msg quote post Address this user
I recently held a writers conference where I was being "helped" by two guys. One tried to do what I needed but came up empty (trying to get sponsors). The other didn't even try.

The conference still happened - although not exactly like I had planned.

I took the time to learn some things:

1. Just because someone is interested or excited doesn't mean they will actually do something.

2. Finding the right people for the right place is essential - not everyone is comfortable asking for sponsors.

3. Have very specific - preferably written - expectations so that everyone can see and understand what is expected. (I LOVE the way @Charlene spelled it out).

4. Know your limits and don't cross that line!
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Member ConsciousPrfection private msg quote post Address this user
@morrnel communication is key. This is why SCRUM works so well. The self important will tell you something like: "Scrum is an Agile framework for completing complex projects."

At it's very core SCRUM is very simple and very straight forward:

Once per day (morning) you have a meeting (a very short meeting) and it goes like this:

1) The entire team gathers around in a circle. (could be in person or virtual. If virtual I suggest video so everyone can look into someone's eyes when it's their turn to speak.

2) Each team member gets 1 minute (no more than 2 minutes) and they state: What they did yesterday, what they plan to do today, and anything that is getting in the way of their goal, (no personal attacks - just statements like "I need the secure checkout fully functional before.....)

3) SCRUM manager monitors all and has the responsibility of addressing roadblocks, mis-direction, task shuffling, or recruiting the assistance of one team player to assist another.

That's it! Sure, you can make it way more complex but it doesn't have to be.
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Forum Owner Belew private msg quote post Address this user
The incidents that spurred this discussion for me ...

1. Every intent to carry thru on the other party was there until she 'fell in love.' (Seriously ... her words) and her new partner wanted her to bail.

2. Every intent to carry thru was there until he got another job offer that he wanted. (Why not? Family first.)

3. The promise was there to answer my email ... but I am still waiting.

@Charlene told me my picker was broken. I had to ask her again what was broken because I wasn't quite sure I caught it the first time. 8-)

Being the glutton for punishment that I am, a terrifically positive experience happened yesterday with a request for a follow up meeting that is on the schedule.

I decided that I should either be hired or hire someone to get best results. Money needs to exchange hands up front or it doesn't work. Because ... my picker is broken.


Post 19 • IP   flag post
Member Charlene private msg quote post Address this user
I would like to clarify on the Why I thought your picker was broken (for those needing a definition: his ability to 'pick' the right collaboration partner isn't bringing him success, therefore that part of him is broken).

First, if more attempts at collaboration have not been successful compared to those that have been - and the number of attempts is more than 10...I say your collaboration partner picker is broken.

Second, if your successes to date are in the Pay Me or I Hire You category and is consistent...I say your Money/Skin in the Game picker is working just fine.

Therefore, based on this information, to continue doing what works means to stop doing what doesn't work.

Should you fix your collaboration partner picker? That's for you to decide.

Me? I do well with collaboration and do okay in the Pay Me/Hire Me area. Where I DON'T do well, at all, to this point is formal business partnerships.

I will end with this: I'm glad to see your self-awareness is alive and well and you are looking at another collaboration opportunity. May I say...proceed with caution? LOL

BTW, I enjoyed meeting you F2F via video chat and look forward to getting to know you.
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Forum Owner Belew private msg quote post Address this user
@Charlene

I am too stubborn or stupid to quit.

Sooner or later I will just run out of time.
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Student TParker private msg quote post Address this user
Perhaps you just ran into a strange set of circumstances. Surely not everyone you work with will fall in love or change jobs. Write it off as coincidence. Or do what I do and look for a deeper meaning. (I don't always find one, but I give it a shot!)
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Forum Owner Belew private msg quote post Address this user
At least they didn't steal money from me. I have had that happen, too.
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Member morrnel private msg quote post Address this user
@Belew, I'd fix your picker before word gets around.
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Member morrnel private msg quote post Address this user
@ConsciousPrfection
I've participated in my share of scrum and stand-up meetings.

Some people simply need a very granular to do list. If s/he needs micro management, pull the plug. One guy blamed his difficulty making commitments onto ADD. I told him he needs more recess.
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Member ConsciousPrfection private msg quote post Address this user
@morrnel The old ADD defense - Ahhh...gahgahgahgahgah.... (think Poppeye ;-)
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Member tienny private msg quote post Address this user
@KathrynLang It's good to find someone who has both skills. Usually, it's hard to find one.
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